There is a Yeshua "codes" discussion group on the Internet called 'T-Code.' A woman named Lori runs it. She and Grant Jeffrey had responded to Rabbi Mechanic's original paper that refuted the so-called Yeshua "codes."

The following "dialogue" shows quotes from Rabbi Mechanic's original paper ("Paper"), followed by Lori's comments, and Rabbi Mechanic's rebuttal.

RESPONSE It is a well known tactic that when people are confronted with overwhelming evidence that they are wrong, their only recourse is to deflect the main issues by focusing on tangential issues. The only issue here is that the top Codes experts in the world have totally refuted all of Rambsel and Jeffrey's claims and, more importantly, their methodology. Their paper discusses whether or not the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples of Yeshua "codes" were deliberately inserted in the Bible--not Christianity or Islam or any other religious belief system. Nothing in their paper attacks Christianity in any way. The tone of the following remarks is necessarily forceful, but it is heavily muted in comparison to the distortion and misrepresentation of the Codes phenomenon that is being addressed in this response.

PAPER Jesus Codes: Uses and Abuses, a Response to Yacov Rambsel and Grant Jeffrey, by Rabbi Daniel Mechanic, in consultation with Doron Witztum and Harold Gans.

LORI BTW, Daniel Mechanic is one of the speakers of the Aish HaTorah code Seminars.

RESPONSE A. Aish HaTorah does not hold "Codes seminars." Aish HaTorah gives privately funded one or two day Discovery seminars whose purpose is to encourage assimilated Jews to re-examine the beauty of their own heritage. Codes are only one small part of the Discovery Seminar.

B. The paper was written with the consultation and assistance of Doron Witztum, Harold Gans and Jeffrey Satinover - the 3 foremost Codes experts, researchers, and authors in the world. The world renowned mathematician and Codes researcher Dr. Eli Rips has also given his approval and agreed to the major points in the paper.

PAPER A recent book aimed primarily at proselytizing Jews to Christianity.

LORI Incorrect. Nowhere in Yacov's new book does he mention that it is directed at Jews. It is being distributed mainly in "Christian" bookstores by Grant Jeffrey, a Christian author, and therefore is obviously mainly directed at Christians.

RESPONSE The reality is that these "codes" ARE directed at Jews. One million pamphlets, falsely claiming that there are Yeshua "codes" that prove Jesus is the Messiah, were sent to homes all over Israel. Witnessing Jews with Yeshua "codes" is being reported all over the world. Tens of thousands of Jews in New York and New Jersey alone, have received unsolicited mailings about "Yeshua codes." Every single anti-missionary group is reporting unprecedented proselytizing with this material. Finally, in a recent interview of Grant Jeffrey by Ray Gano, Jeffrey stated "THOUSANDS OF JEWS WORLDWIDE are being introduced to the reality of Yeshua through the proof from their own Hebrew Bible that his name is found in every messianic passage." (Interestingly, Mr. Jeffrey decided to present the facts in a radically different light in his recent letter. "However, we receive letters from TIME TO TIME that indicates that SOME of our readers are Jews who find the material of interest.")

PAPER Although we are restricting most of our comments here to Pastor Rambsel's book, it should be noted that there are other Christian books, articles, videos, internet postings, etc. that repeat Pastor Rambsel's findings or that discuss "codes" found using a similar methodology.

LORI Did anyone notice that they forgot to include "JEWISH" code researchers who use the same methodology, i.e., Rabbi Tauber and let's not forget, oh Yes, even the Aish HaTorah code seminars. This is a prime example of the kettle calling the pot black.

RESPONSE Incorrect. As everyone can see two lines down, they mention "Jews who made similar errors."

As far as Rabbi Tauber is concerned:

A. Rabbi Tauber has absolutely nothing to do with Aish HaTorah or Discovery and has NEVER been involved in actual Codes research. All of Rabbi Tauber's "codes" were not discovered by him. Rabbi Weissmandel found them. It is clearly stated in the paper that Rabbi Weissmandel's patterns are not "codes" (i.e., statistically significant ELS's).

B. The ONLY issues that are relevant are the Codes experts' refutation of the Rambsel/Jeffrey claims. All this talk about what Aish HaTorah does or does not do is simply a deflection of the real issue. The issue here is the worlds top Codes experts' refutation of Yeshua "codes" and its methodology - not what Rabbi Tauber, Rabbi Weissmandel or Aish HaTorah does or did.

C. In any event, this is all simply not true. Only one or two of Rabbi Weissmandel's word patterns are presented at Discovery, for the pedagogical purpose and process of showing that they are NOT Codes (i.e., word patterns that we can scientifically demonstrate were deliberately placed in the Torah) and how one can be easily fooled into thinking that they are, and how referring to these interesting "patterns" as Codes is sheer nonsense. Discovery teachers, at the beginning of their lecture, show the 49-letter "Torah" pattern or the 49 letter "Hashoah" (Holocaust) pattern and then say "What does this prove?? Absolutely nothing! The word "Torah" or "Hashoah" is found in the Torah hundreds of thousands of times. And you will find them, and hundreds of millions of other words, in ANY large Hebrew text, thus showing that these examples in the Torah must be considered coincidences. In fact, there are hundreds of BILLIONS of coincidental ELS's in the Torah! Therefore, these examples cannot prove anything." There has never been a "retraction" or "change" by Aish HaTorah as to what constitutes a real Code and what types of ELS examples can be used as evidence for the Torah's Divine authorship. It is dishonest to constantly repeat this falsehood and mislead people into thinking that Aish HaTorah uses insignificant and random ELS' s to prove something.

D. Grant Jeffrey and Yacov Rambsel's profound confusion, ignorance, and total misrepresentation of the most basic and fundamental concepts concerning Codes is staggering. Perhaps we again need to briefly explain the basic concepts and definitions regarding Codes. It is the consistent use of incorrect terminology by Rambsel and Jeffrey that has facilitated their distortion of the Codes phenomenon.

ELS - This means an Equidistant Letter Sequence. They are NOT Codes! They are accidental 'patterns' that appear everywhere - newspapers, your diary, comic books, this paper, the Torah. The larger the book - the more of them you will find. The Torah, for example, has hundreds of BILLIONS of these accidental and, therefore, meaningless examples.

CODES - These are, BY DEFINITION, ELS's that were deliberately inserted into a text by the author of that text. There is a Kabbalistic tradition that God inserted Codes in the Torah (ONLY theTorah!). Since God did not tell us which of the billions of ELS's in the Torah are accidental and which ones He deliberately inserted, there is only one way we can determine that a specific ELS may indeed be a deliberately placed Code - and that's by demonstrating through statistics and probabilities that the specific ELS is highly unlikely to be a random occurrence. Therefore, 'Torah Codes,' BY DEFINITION, are ELS's in the Torah whose probability of them being a random occurrence has been proven, by qualified mathematicians, to be exceedingly small. Since ALL the Rambsel/Jeffrey "codes" are completely expected to appear by chance, they are NOT Codes! They are ELS's. It is incredibly misleading to incorrectly call an ELS a Code, as Grant Jeffrey and Yacov Rambsel do in their books - and it is morally wrong to attempt to "prove" a major theological or doctrinal belief by incorrectly calling an ELS a Code.

STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT - In our case, it means ELS's in the Torah that have gone through rigorous statistical testing and have been verified to be highly unlikely to have been a random occurrence - (I.e., the probability that the ELS is appearing by chance is exceedingly small). The ONLY statistically significant ELS's (i.e., Codes) that have been discovered so far are the statistically verified Rabbis example. (Other experiments have been performed by Gans and Witztum and the results have also been proven to be statistically significant. They are being submitted for publication and are awaiting peer review). These types of examples are the ONLY ones that can be truthfully referred to as "Statistically Significant" or "Codes". To refer to the Rambsel/Jeffrey ELS patterns as "statistically significant" or "codes" as they constantly do is simply not true.

STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT - These are ELS's that, statistically, are not unusual or out of the ordinary, are totally expected to occur by chance, and are therefore insignificant. ALL OF THE RAMBSEL AND JEFFREY EXAMPLES HAVE BEEN VERIFIED TO BE STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT (THE YESHUA CODES ARE NOT STATISTICALLY 'UNVERIFIED' OR 'UNMEASURABLE' - AS MR. JEFFREY INCORRECTLY STATES IN HIS BOOKS AND RECENT RESPONSE. ALL OF THE YESHUA "CODES" HAVE BEEN STATISTICALLY VERIFIED TO BE UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT!) In a book like the Torah, you expect - and will find hundreds of billions of ELS's. You expect - and will find - over 600,000 ELS's of the word Yeshua in the Torah. You expect - and will find Yeshua (and all of the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples) at an ELS, hundreds of thousands of times in the Hebrew translations of the Koran, Kampf and any Woody Allen book. It pains us deeply to observe someone mislead unsuspecting people by calling an insignificant ELS a "significant code," and then proceed to use this incorrect terminology to " prove" a specific religion to be true.

The quintessential manifestation of Mr. Jeffrey's complete and utter distortion of the authentic Codes phenomenon can be seen in every paragraph of his recent response when he misleads people with grossly incorrect terminology. That these most basic points must be explained to someone writing books on "codes" would be laughable, were it not so tragically revealing as to how confused he is concerning the Codes phenomenon.

SIGNIFICANT - Regarding the Codes phenomenon, the correct use of the word "significant" is very definite and specific. When you refer to a certain ELS as significant, that means, BY DEFINITION, that it has been statistically demonstrated that the ELS was deliberately inserted (i.e., it's a Code). However, a simple ELS is, BY DEFINITION, insignificant. In other words, if an ELS has been shown to be deliberately inserted, ONLY then is it a Code, and ONLY then can it be called significant. If it is simply another one of the insignificant billions of ELS's, then it is NOT - and cannot be called - "significant." Grant Jeffrey' s constant referral to insignificant Yeshua ELS's as "significant," thus implying that they are genuine Codes, is fundamentally incorrect. The insignificant ELS's may be subjectively "meaningful" to some people, but they are NOT "significant."

MEANINGFUL - The term "meaningful" has NOTHING to do with the fundamental goal of Codes research (i.e., determining if the ELS is a genuine Code). The term "meaningful" lies in the realm of subjective feelings and emotions. Everyone has the right to feel and think that some of the billions of insignificant ELS's in the Torah are "meaningful" to them. People have the right to sound extremely foolish and confused by saying that their ELS's, or the passages where they inevitably find almost any ELS they want, are meaningful to them despite the fact that their "meaningful" examples and methodology have been shown to be utterly ridiculous, insignificant, and invalid. People do NOT have the right - and it is morally repugnant to falsely claim that these subjectively meaningful ELS's are "significant codes" ( i.e., ELS's that have been shown to have deliberately inserted), and to lead people to believe that their subjectively "meaningful" examples are significant, have evidential value, and prove major religious beliefs - especially when these "meaningful" examples have been shown to be insignificant nonsense!

PAPER Pastor Rambsel and Grant Jeffrey are neither scientists, nor are they mathematicians or statisticians.

LORI Nor do they claim to be.

RESPONSE A. Then why do they make (incorrect) statistical claims in their books, lectures, and interviews concerning the Yeshua "codes"? Why is there a whole chapter on (incorrect) "probabilities" in Rambsel's book? Why does Grant Jeffrey constantly discuss (fraudulent) statistics in his books, interviews, internet postings, etc.? On page 223 of Grant Jeffrey's book he writes, "Mathematical experts have calculated the probability of 'Yeshua Shemi'... one chance in fifty quadrillion." This is a blatant lie and he knows it. (Interestingly, Mr. Jeffrey wrote precisely the opposite in his recent response. "We did not state that the codes involving the name "Yeshua" had been subjected to an experiment using statistical analysis.." Please read that quote again - and then read it one more time. He must have forgot to read page 223 of his own book). As it says in the experts' paper, "there is not even one statistical claim or computation in their writings that is mathematically true."

Let's repeat that. "There is not even one statistical claim or computation in their writings that is mathematically true." It deceptive to claim or imply that ANY of the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples and their methodology have anything to do with science or statistics - or the authentic Codes phenomenon for that matter - as Christian missionaries are publicizing everywhere. In fact, comparing ANY of the Rambsel/Jeffrey examples to the authentic Codes is, literally, like comparing apples to orangutans.

PAPER and are simply disregarding the fundamental requirement for rigorous "validating methods" in domains such as these.

LORI Yes, and we know how Jewish code "experts" have been more than willing to share their research methods with Christians, don't we.

RESPONSE What does this comment have to do with the fact that Rambsel and Jeffrey are "simply disregarding the fundamental requirement for rigorous validating methods in domains such as these"? By blatantly evading this issue, we have before us a microcosm of the type of approach being taken by the "Yeshua codes" proponents. The inescapable reality is, if you don't fulfill this number one requirement of Codes research, then all ELS examples, including Yeshua and phrases containing Yeshua, join the hundreds of BILLIONS of ELS's that accidentally appear in the Torah and in any large Hebrew text. Since Rambsel/Jeffrey did not prove that any of their ELS's are indeed deliberate Codes and, in fact, the opposite has been shown - then anything and everything they are claiming has absolutely NOTHING to do with the authentic Codes phenomenon.

LORI For instance barring any Christians from attending the Aish HaTorah code seminars.

RESPONSE The seminars are privately funded by Jews exclusively for the purpose of bringing Jews back to their heritage. If Christians had similar seminars, and Moslems or Jews came to all of them, constantly disrupted the lectures and lecturers, missionized the participants of the seminar to their religion during the breaks, took the material - twisted and distorted it - and then proceeded to use this distorted material to deliberately mislead and deceive tens of thousands of Christians, wouldn't Christians also have a problem with their attendance?

LORI Is it any wonder that objective research on TCODE has not progressed much in the last 5 months and the subjective research has been ruled out of existence to the point I had to form another group for such research?

RESPONSE "Subjectivity," and the fundamentally required Codes Verification Process (i.e., demonstrating that an ELS was deliberately inserted into the text) are mutually exclusive! Therefore, "subjective codes" has NOTHING to do with the authentic Codes phenomenon. To say otherwise reveals a complete lack of understanding of the entire phenomenon. "Subjective codes research" is EXACTLY the same as reading clouds, tea leaves, or tarot cards. It will yield anything you want including "codes" showing Nazis to be saints. In other words, what "subjective codes research" and Jeffrey/Rambsel are saying is "Don't confuse us with the facts about Codes and Codes research. Our minds are made up about our 'meaningful' and 'subjective' ELS's. Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, we have 'faith' that they are genuine."

PAPER The following comments apply, therefore, to all of these works. It should be clear, however, that we are not debating the relative merits of Jewish and Christian theologies in this paper. We are simply focusing on those misuses and misrepresentations of the "codes" that are aimed at proselytizing Jews to some form of Christianity.

LORI This is ridiculous. Aish HaTorah and Rabbi Tauber use the same methods to proselytize secular Jews to Judaism. Should that be outlawed also? Obviously this is a biased analysis by a supposedly objective researcher.

RESPONSE A. Rabbi Tauber is not Aish HaTorah and has nothing to do with Aish HaTorah.

B. It is irrelevant what Rabbi Tauber or Aish HaTorah does or does not do.

C. As we already explained, it is absolutely false to say that Aish HaTorah "uses the same methods." How sad that people are resorting to a pathetic deflection of the issues with such irrelevant and false claims.

PAPER

Codes Definition - encoded words deliberately inserted into a document - is categorically different. These types of word patterns are Codes that were purposely placed in a document by the document's author. All of the other hundreds, thousands, and sometimes hundreds of thousands, of encoded words that exist in every document in the world are a coincidence (until proven otherwise). If it cannot be proven that a particular "code" was deliberately placed in a document, and a statistical evaluation shows it to be meaningless, their "existence" cannot - and should not - be used as proof of anything.

LORI Sounds like they believe that God only encoded "some" of the Torah - i.e., he is a God of confusion and left a conglomeration of nonsense behind.

RESPONSE The only "nonsense" taking place is profoundly confused and dishonest people running around and:

1) deceiving people into thinking that the ELS's they found are Codes, when nothing could be further from the truth;

2) misleading people into thinking that the "Yeshua codes" methodology is the same as the authentic one, when nothing could be further from the truth;

3) teaching and writing about a "meaningful" methodology despite the fact that it also yields " proof" that Koresh, Mohammed, Krishna, Moon, etc. are all the True Messiah and the Sons of God.

PAPER Furthermore, encoded words are ordered patterns that can be tested mathematically. The philosophical, religious or spiritual implications of a document with deliberately encoded words that relate to future events in history are a different subject altogether.

LORI There you have it folks. He doth talketh out of both sideth of his moutheth. All the code researchers that he is putting down do focus on the philosophical, religious or spiritual implications of the encoded words, even his own Aish HaTorah Code Seminars.

RESPONSE You have missed the whole point. Although the experts were quite clear in their paper, we'll explain it again. There is a difference between:

A. The implications of the fact that it has been statistically demonstrated that there are deliberately encoded words in the Torah that relate to the future, (i.e.: the author of the Torah is not human).

B. An interpretation of the ENCODED WORDS THEMSELVES (of course, only after demonstrating that the ELS is indeed a deliberate Code) which was effectively shown in the paper to be, at the very best, mere speculation.

In fact, it is precisely this stated distinction which demonstrates the incredible intellectual honesty and integrity that these Codes experts have. They are saying that the ONLY conclusion and interpretation one can reach with regard to the Famous Rabbis Codes is that the author of the Torah deliberately encoded those words and therefore knew the future. They themselves will tell you that the following statement is not true: "the existence of these Rabbis Codes proves that we should follow those Rabbis and the Jewish religion." You won't see Mechanic, Witztum, Gans, Satinover, Rips, etc. running around saying "Wow, names of Rabbis who utterly rejected Jesus and Christianity are encoded in the Torah. Look at that, one of the examples of Codes that have been statistically verified to have been deliberately put in the Torah, are unsaved Rabbis who rejected Jesus and were sometimes killed and tortured rather than accept him! What a disproof of Christianity!"

If they would use "subjectivity" and "interpretation" like Rambsel and Jeffrey do, they would have the ultimate proof that the Jews were correct in rejecting Jesus. Why have they not made this statement? Because there is something called honesty and integrity. They know that you cannot interpret any of the specific Codes that have been verified to have been deliberately inserted - (It goes without saying that nobody in his right mind would foolishly waste their time "interpreting" patterns that have been definitively verified to be completely insignificant i.e., Yeshua "codes").

If any Jew would write a book that claims to have codes proving Jesus was a False Messiah and False Prophet - and would use all the examples shown in part one of this paper - and the hundreds of others that have been found using the Rambsel/Jeffrey methodology - and the well known complex and intuitively compelling ones that were found and written about (but never publicized) years before the "Yeshua codes" were discussed - the same critique would be written about the book. In fact, this is what has actually happened. They mentioned in their article two books written by Jews there were numerous discussions with these two authors and they were told that their "codes" on Jesus are not codes - and this was before anyone claimed that there were Yeshua "codes." There were two other "codes" books showing Jesus to be a False Prophet that were about to be published a number of years ago that we stopped in their tracks -- and this was also before Yeshua "codes" were being spoken about! Why? Intellectual and moral honesty and integrity.

PAPER Yeshua Patterns: Pastor Rambsel writes in his book how "Yeshua" can be extracted from passages in Isaiah, Daniel and Psalms.

LORI Lets not be forgetting about the words "Yeshua" and "Tummin/perfection, integrity, truth, spotless" encoded next to each other starting in Genesis 37:6 from the ayin counting every 214 letters from left to right and then the adjacent letters to Yeshua spell out "Tummin" This just happens to be something the High priest wore on his breastplate.

RESPONSE Again, you have missed the most basic concepts of Codes and Codes research. Because two of the Hebrew letters in the word Yeshua are the most common letters in the Hebrew language, you will find an accidental appearance of the word Yeshua, or phrases containing the word Yeshua, hundreds of thousands of times in the Torah -- in other words, on every single page and in every single passage! We know that all of these examples are coincidences because if you take any Hebrew newspaper, or a Hebrew translation of a Woody Allen book - texts that cannot possibly contain deliberate encodings of the word Yeshua - you will also find Yeshua "encoded" (unlike the authentic Codes) over 600,000 times! This fact conclusively shows how utterly ridiculous and foolish it is to waste time discussing these accidental ELS's.

Furthermore, you will also find ELS's of Mohammed, Koresh, Krishna, Moon, and every single person in history that was claimed to be the Messiah, hundreds of thousands of times in the Torah, passing through every single page and passage! You will find other 'Messiahs' encoded near the word "Tumim" in the Torah, and you will also find them 'encoded' in any other large Hebrew text. (By the way, the proper spelling of this Hebrew word is "Tumim" with the letter "Mem" - not "Tumin"). Since this type of "codes research" yields contradictory, illogical, and absurd results, the methodology and all of its results are inherently invalid.

LORI And last but not least in the same chapter let's not be forgetting about a phrase encoded in Ez 37:19 starting with the 6th to last yod, counting every 13th letter spells "Yeshua ri'mon/Yeshua the Pomegranate"

RESPONSE The correct Hebrew expression for "Yeshua the pomegranate" is "Yeshua HArimon." How can anyone do research on Hebrew Codes if they don't know the Hebrew language (or if they publish a book on "codes" in the Torah and the cover has a picture of a Torah scroll upside down?)

LORI Let's see the statistical significance of those please.

RESPONSE Zero. Absolutely insignificant. But if you want to have "faith" that Yeshua Rimon was deliberately encoded, then you should know that Koresh, Buddha, Krishna, Mohammed, Moon, and any person in history who was ever claimed to be the Messiah are all " Rimons" too. They will appear with the Rimon expression in the Torah and in any large Hebrew text.

PAPER Following are only a few examples of the many fundamental errors in Pastor Rambsel's methodology and logic: 1. Statistically, one would expect to find an appearance of "Yeshua" anywhere you decide to look, in almost any document in the world..In fact, the mathematical expectation is that "Yeshua" will appear accidentally in the Torah over 300,000 times (302,800.50 to be exact). . . . .Therefore, the appearance of "Yeshua" somewhere in the Torah would not - and could not - prove anything.

LORI Nobody is disputing the fact that short words will occur multiple times in a text.

RESPONSE "Multiple times"? This statement reflects a complete and total lack of understanding of the Codes phenomenon.. Here are the simple mathematics. In a text containing 304,805 letters, like the Torah, you will find HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of random ELS's. Let's repeat that - There are hundreds of BILLIONS of random ELS's in the Torah. You will find approximately 30 BILLION four-letter ELS's in the Torah. Since there are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet, there are 234,256 possible different four-letter combinations (22 X 22 X 22 X 22).

Therefore, on average, each four-letter Hebrew "word" will appear approximately 130,000 times in the text of the Torah! (30 billion divided by 234,256). In other words, everywhere - every page - every passage. Four-letter Hebrew words like "Mickey," "Mouse," "Charlie," "Chaplin," "Koresh," "Yeshua," four letter Hebrew curse words, etc. will appear everywhere, hundreds of thousands of times. You will find exactly the same thing in a 304,805-letter section of any Hebrew document. And Yeshua, with its very common Hebrew letters, will appear accidentally not 130,000 times, but approximately 600,000 times, in any large Hebrew text, including the Torah. To which Grant Jeffrey recently responded: Jesus' name is there so many times "because He is the Messiah that the whole Bible teaches about." In other words, Jeffrey is saying that it is precisely because Jesus' name is "encoded" in the Torah hundreds of thousands of times that proves that God put them there on purpose and that all those Yeshua "codes" are not accidental - otherwise, why else is Yeshua's name encoded in the Torah hundreds of thousands of times? Mindboggling nonsense. REVEREND MOON'S NAME IS CODED INTO THE TORAH MANY MORE TIMES THAN JESUS, OVER 19 MILLION TIMES! Koresh, Mohammed, Krishna, etc. are also encoded hundreds of thousands of times in the Torah.

If you look for Yeshua in the Hebrew translation (or even in the original) of the KORAN - yes - the KORAN - Yeshua will also appear over 600,000 times. You will also find the other Jeffrey/Rambsel "codes" in the Koran. This fact effectively shows how all of their "codes" claims are sheer nonsense. It is absolutely mindboggling how people can make statements or write books about "codes" when they understand nothing about its most basic concepts!

LORI However, if Mr. Mechanic would have paid more attention to his research he would have noticed that these words often jumble up in one area and are therefore often not to be found at all in certain passages (at a reasonable ELS) and who in their right mind would use an ELS of 1,000 when there are multiple others at a lesser ELS???

RESPONSE "at a reasonable ELS"?? Everybody read that phrase again - it is just one more manifestation of a complete ignorance regarding the authentic Codes methodology. There is no such thing as a "reasonable ELS." It is a convenient yet fictitious term in the fantasy world of "subjective codes." It is absolutely irrelevant what the specific amount of letters are in the skip distance of any ELS.

LORI If one sticks to the minimum ELS of Yeshua which is under 10 then Yeshua only occurs 103 times in the whole Torah or only 25 times in the whole book of Genesis.

RESPONSE A. So does Mohammed, Koresh, Moon, Krishna, etc.

B. The same thing happens in any Hebrew newspaper, novel, or the Torah with all of its letters randomly rearranged.

C. Using your sentence and substituting Yeshua with "Moon," results in the following statement: If one looks in Genesis for minimum ELS's of "Moon" (under 20) Moon is encoded only 628 times (when the search is conducted going forwards).

LORI Rambsel specifically states that most of these occurrences of Yeshua occurred in a verse relating to the Messiah. I would ask them to figure the statistical significance of that but you can't statistically analyze relevance therefore this is a moot question and only points out the inadequacy of statistical analysis in such a case.

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